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| Author | Topic: Divas on All That Chat |
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 Jean
Registered User
Registered:
6/7/2003 | posted: 1/17/2004 at 1:30:07 PM ET
I rarely read anything on ATC having to do with Bernadette, because for some reason there are a few very rude/nasty people there who delight in writing, well, rude/nasty comments about her. But I was drawn to this discussion of "divas", and, wonder of wonders, someone wrote something really perceptive about the divas in question, and quite nice about Bernadette. (I think the writer is actualy 2 men, who did the Sweater Book??)
Diva discussion on ATC
|  PA Fan
Registered User
Registered:
11/6/2003 | posted: 1/17/2004 at 2:06:17 PM ET
Jean ---
I just read that too. It was good to see.
Also, I saw where our Moljul posted a "corrective" comment on ATC (I think it dealt with BP being on Regis)to someone who commented on Bernadette's voice in the past and as it was on Regis. Moljul pointed out that one may not sound like oneself when fighting a respiratory infection.
| Karen
Registered User
Registered:
5/3/2002 | posted: 1/17/2004 at 2:11:09 PM ET
Jean, thank you so much for posting that link; I would not have seen it otherwise. That is one of the most well-balanced, fair, open-minded, and perceptive(not to mention well written)discussions of these performers that I have read. I don't agree with all of his opinions, but that doesn't matter of course. One example: I think Bernadette has much stronger vocal abilities than Bette Midler. I would never say Midler has a great voice--it's her humor, personality, and energy on stage that make her a star. But that's just a personal quibble. This person or persons has so much insight into personalities and careers. He puts into precise words a lot of vague impressions I've had, but had not been able to formulate so clearly for myself. What he says in the first paragraph about Liza is heartbreakingly true. Speaking as someone who saw her seven nights in a row at the St Louis Muny Opera in 1972, I don't think there was ever a performer as electrifying on stage as Liza in her prime. But in a relatively few short years, she had thrown it away...so tragic. Anyway, thanks for the link. I'm definitely saving a copy of that post.
|  moljul
Registered User
Registered:
4/2/2001
From:
New York
Fav. BP CD: I'll Be Your Baby Tonight
Fav. BP Song: Dublin Lady
| posted: 1/17/2004 at 2:53:37 PM ET
LOL
I don't think the person on ATC meant to it to be a negative comment. They commented (almost with amazement) that Bernadette sounded very strong on Regis - stronger than when the poster saw her in Gypsy "before the show opened".
So I of course had to respond with a smart ass comment like "you mean she sounds stronger than someone who has a respiratory infection". Let's face it, we are probably all a little touchy when it comes to Bernadette and I had to smile when Bernadette herself, quite nicely but firmly, corrected Regis that she did not have vocal problems at the beginning of the run but was sick. It amazes me how distorted facts can get when just a few spread rumors to the masses.
|  Broadwaybaby17
Registered User
Registered:
3/18/2003
From:
Alabama | posted: 1/17/2004 at 5:33:06 PM ET
Once again Moljul you are so right. It gets on my nerves so bad when people say stuff about her at the beginning of Gypsy.Especially people who know nothing of singing. My voice teacher teaches me how to sing the way that Bernadette does without hurting my voice and I know that Bernadette knows how to as well. My teacher and I have had some lengthy discussions about how long Bernadette has been singing the way she does and that if she had been doing it wrong then she would have not had a voice before she reached 50. Another way to look at it is the fact that Julie Andrews has been singing right all her life and then gets a water filled cyst. Things happen to singers and those who know what they are doing, try their best to take care of their voice, some things just can't be helped like respiratory infections and cysts. Ok phew, I'm done! you have to read that as one really long run on setence without any pauses to hear the way it was coming out of me lol!
Bump it with a trumpet!
| moljul
Registered User
Registered:
4/2/2001
From:
New York
Fav. BP CD: I'll Be Your Baby Tonight
Fav. BP Song: Dublin Lady
| posted: 1/17/2004 at 10:24:40 PM ET
Actually BroadwayBaby, the way I heard it - Julie Andrews problems did stem from her not singing correction for many years. When she was younger and starring in all those wonderful Broadway musicals (My Fair Lady and Camelot) she was not singing properly and singing 8 shows a week. Though I think after this time in her life she did learn to sing properly and that is probably why her earlier mistakes didn't affect her until much later in life. So that just goes to show you - bad habits can come back to haunt you even if you've corrected your mistakes. At least that is what I thought I have heard her say in interviews. Though I know she sheds new light on her situation (probably as she discovers new things herself) so maybe that really isn't the cause now.
At any rate, if Bernadette sang wrong at any time in her life, I'm sure corrected it a long time ago. She could never get through the roll of Rose for this many months without having major vocal fatigue (such as Nathan Lane had in The Producers). She continues to employ the use of teachers and coaches. I was shocked to hear (I believe on this board) that Linda Eder apparently does not use a vocal coach and never really has. Though that might be working for her now unless she has a doctorate in voice training and has become an expert in the use of the voice (and that only comes from learning from other teachers not just from singing), I hope her habits don't come back to haunt her one day. I'm not a fan of hers myself, but I certainly hope she continues to have the ability to sing if that is her passion.
| PTM
Registered User
Registered:
6/26/2003 | posted: 1/18/2004 at 1:09:55 AM ET
Funny, as I was going through some papers, I found these reviews of Peters first album. From Stereo Review: "she has begun to bring to the surface an arry of perviously unrevealed talents as an actress-singer that could put her right up there with Streisand and Midler." And from Rolling Stone: "Here's news. Movie, stage and television actress Bernadette Peters debuts on record as a first-rate pop torch singer: Melissa Manchester with soul, Bette Midler on pitch."
PTM
| PA Fan
Registered User
Registered:
11/6/2003 | posted: 1/18/2004 at 3:33:17 AM ET
"She continues to employ the use of teachers and coaches."
Moljul...I know nothing about singing, but this surprised me. Is it to keep the voice in shape, etc.
| moljul
Registered User
Registered:
4/2/2001
From:
New York
Fav. BP CD: I'll Be Your Baby Tonight
Fav. BP Song: Dublin Lady
| posted: 1/18/2004 at 1:51:13 PM ET
Well I'm certainly no professional singer but I have sung and taken lessons for most of my life. So from what I've learned I would say you need to continue to have a teacher for many reasons. First the voice changes throughout your life. What you learn about your voice at 20 will not get you through life if you plan to use your voice as your profession. Plus just because you sing and take lessons, you are not an expert on the voice. You might be an expert singer but that is something totally different. The voice is like an organ and there are a lot of very technical and biological elements to it. Those who teach and coach voice have more than likely learned through many years of experience and many years of studying the actual voice. Not necessarily singing but how it functions. They know exactly what happens to your vocal chords and your lungs and your diaphragm. They are truly an expert. I think you also need to keep these experts in your life so that you get a well educated and also objective opinion about the quality of your voice. It is hard to really listen to yourself sing.
If you think about it, even world class athletes keep their coaches. Someone who knows them from the inside out and knows the best and most healthy way to treat their body and achieve their athletic goals. A singer is just another form of an athlete. They have to work their voice out daily and constantly keep it in top form.
If someone has a more expert opinion, please chime in.
| Anonymous
Anonymous Poster
From Internet Network:
69.133.107.x | posted: 1/18/2004 at 8:09:55 PM ET
I've studied voice for almost 10 years now(opera and musical theatre), and so maybe I can help shed a little light on this from what I know. 
No matter how trained or good a singer is they ALWAYS need another set of ears--someone who can hear if there are problems, if the singer is pushing the voice, or what's going on. This is a MUST since when we sing what we hear is totally different than what is actually being resonated. Now vocal coach and voice teacher are two DIFFERENT things...the voice teacher(singing teacher) will make sure things are aligned with the voice, help the singer sing correctly, and work on vocal technique--because the voice is a muscle that must be used regularly and correctly--it's a special muscle though...one that is very delicate. The vocal coach is usually someone to help the singer with the songs they are singing. The coach will play through the music with the singer and will help them with diction, phrasing, and musicality ideas. Sometimes the coach and the teacher may work together helping the singer. But I must say that many people in the "opera world" LOVE Bernadette--because she DOES sing correctly. A lot of musical theatre singers use "straight tone"--which is taking out the vibrato(the kind of pulsation in the voice that gives it shape and warmth). Particularly if you listen to a show like RENT(which I still enjoy) you will notice a BIG difference from these singers to a voice like Bernadette's. Vibrato is healthy and natural, and Bernadette's voice is full of warmth and vitality--and another reason they like her voice(and I do) is because it's so bright and unique--it's like nothing else. You would be surprised how many opera singers love musical theatre, but are afraid to sing it because they don't want to ruin their voices because much of the time people with good voices are looked over--seemingly because Broadway seems to be giving us shows that use the "ROCK voice." Musical theatre of the 1930s,40s,50s used to primarily use this...even singers in the movies of the "olden days"--they all had voices like Bernadette's. Anyways...didn't mean to ramble and get off track.
My point is...Bernadette is singing VERY healthily for being in her mid 50's. Most women start to really lose their voices once they get in the 60's. Her voice has gotten deeper(which is only natural)--but as long as she continues to sing correctly she'll be fine. Doing 8 shows a week is SO hard--but you can do it as long as you take care of yourself. Believe it or not, it's not so much the singing(if you're singing correctly) that will tire you out...it's your body getting tired. I did a run recently (just two weeks) of a one act opera...I did 8 performances straight. You just get the music in your muscle and trust your voice--plus get TONS AND TONS of sleep and don't talk a lot during the day. YOU LIVE LIKE A NUN. ---Justin
| jmslsu01
Registered User
Registered:
6/9/2003
From:
northern VA | posted: 1/18/2004 at 9:57:14 PM ET
Justin-
Thanks for the information. What a diverse board we have-from teenagers to aspiring performers to college students to Broadway actresses to women who saw Bernadette back in Mack and Mabel and now to opera singers. Whew!
Jenn
|  MsPetersFan1
Registered User
Registered:
6/25/2002
From:
Long Island, New York & Boston, | posted: 1/18/2004 at 10:31:14 PM ET
I know! Isn't it wonderful though?
~* Megan *~
| moljul
Registered User
Registered:
4/2/2001
From:
New York
Fav. BP CD: I'll Be Your Baby Tonight
Fav. BP Song: Dublin Lady
| posted: 1/18/2004 at 11:53:09 PM ET
Justin, Thanks for adding a much more thorough and professional spin on my amateur explanation. You confirmed exactly what I have thought - I worry for Linda Eder's future. :-(
| Karen
Registered User
Registered:
5/3/2002 | posted: 1/19/2004 at 11:11:11 AM ET
Justin, that is so enlightening. I LOVE this board!
| Broadwaybaby17
Registered User
Registered:
3/18/2003
From:
Alabama | posted: 1/21/2004 at 1:09:33 AM ET
I've read biography after biography on Julie Andrews and she's been training since she was around the age of 5. Every interview i've ever seen her in she says the cyst developed out of no where...she wasn't even doing much singning at the time. i guess it was like a cyst developing on your wrist or face or something completely unrelated to anything that you are doing. the fact that it was water filled instead of cancer or celluloid, should have helped in the long run...unfortunately her surgery is what damaged her voice not the cyst itself. that's why she was so upset, because it could have been avoided.
Bump it with a trumpet!
| moljul
Registered User
Registered:
4/2/2001
From:
New York
Fav. BP CD: I'll Be Your Baby Tonight
Fav. BP Song: Dublin Lady
| posted: 1/21/2004 at 11:08:09 AM ET
Broadwaybaby17 (you must get a short name LOL), I might be remembering wrong. I think I too read that a lot of the singing she did early in her life probably damaged her vocal chords. Even though she had a freakish adult voice as a child she probably should not have been singing the way she did and training her voice like she truly was an adult. Anyway, if I come across whatever article I'm thinking about, I'll try to post an excerpt. But for now I just can't remember where I got this impression so that's good to know what you have learned.
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