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| Author | Topic: Re scrapbook idea |
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Anonymous
Anonymous Poster
From Internet Network:
24.184.97.x | posted: 10/4/2005 at 7:29:37 AM ET
Hi. I'm an occasional poster, frequent lurker, posting anonymously, sorry, because I can't remember/the site can't retrieve, either my user name or password.
I've wanted to keep silent on my feelings about the scrapbook, but it's been bothering more and more each day, so please don't all jump on me, but here are my thoughts.
The first scrapbook was a lovely "souvenir" for Bernadette, celebrating her career and the love that we all feel for her. It was a "happy time" gift.
Re this new scrapbook, Christine's comment ("That would be nice if we (her major fans)could share nice memories about Michael and send them to her."), sums up the intention of the proposed scrapbook.
While well meaning, it is to me sharing memories that are for Bernadette alone to keep. She's now going through the darkest moment of her life. All she has left of Michael are her memories, and they should be allowed to come to her in her most private moments, shared with no one.
A scrapbook would turn her mourning into a public forum, and it's for this reason, I feel it's an invasion of her privacy.
I'm an older, very longtime fan. I've sent my condolences. I remember so much about her and Michael from the very first small People magazine wedding item--things that we all remember. She doesn't need to be reminded of them. Let her share her private memories with her family and close friends.
Is there anyone else who feels as I do?
Christine
|  cuteoperaboi
Registered User
Registered:
1/3/2004
From:
Ohio | posted: 10/4/2005 at 8:15:15 AM ET
Yes...I really agree with you. I think the scrapbooking idea is very sweet, but this is such a personal thing to her she needs her privacy.
| jmslsu01
Registered User
Registered:
6/9/2003
From:
northern VA | posted: 10/4/2005 at 8:35:24 AM ET
I'm of two minds of this.
I do understand, and people should not jump on you for your opinion.
However, for some people in mourning, they welcome each and every positive memory anyone can offer.
It's not an easy matter, and I've had differing opinions on this.
At times, you hunger for stories about the person. You love to hear how that person affected someone, something special that happened that you might not have even known about.
But grief turns very personal and protective at times.
I don't know.
Jenn
| Chiquita
Registered User
Registered:
12/4/2003
From:
Toronto | posted: 10/4/2005 at 8:42:48 AM ET
I am also unsure about what to think. However, I think it's the thought that counts and if someone wants to make a scrapbook to show they care, and if other people would like to contribute, I think it's a beautiful and valid thing.
I believe Bernadette has the choice to either read it or not. She can still feel touched by it and decide to look at it when she feels up to it.
I don't know. Personally, I would appreciate anything that came my way even if at the time it hurt too much to look at it......
You either got it, or you aint!
|  Jean
Registered User
Registered:
6/7/2003 | posted: 10/4/2005 at 8:45:16 AM ET
You all know me--if I thought that the scrapbook idea was inappropriate or insulting or harmful to Bernadette in any way, I would have yelled loud and long. I think it is none of those things.
That said, the problem I have with the idea is that none of us knows Bernadette well enough to say what she wants or needs, now or later. So, I guess I see the scrapbook as helping the contributors more than Bernadette, by doing something, anything, to relieve the overwhelming sense of grief.
I will not be contributing, which I suppose sums up my feelings. For the rest of you, follow your heart.
I just re-read this--no offense meant to anyone, what ever you think, feel, or do; it's all very personal.
|  Christine-NYC
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From:
New York City
Fav. BP Song: With So Little to be Sure Of
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Fav. BP CD: Bernadette Peters Loves Rogers and Hammerstein
| posted: 10/4/2005 at 10:06:30 AM ET
Here's where I've been standing with the issue. While I do think, and did say, that it's a very sweet idea, for some reason I have not been able to decide if I actually want to partake in it.
I didn't even participate in her fan scrapbook.
While I do look at scrapbooks from fans to be nice gestures, part of me doesn't like to be part of them.
Megan, I wouldn't mind of you took anything from here that I said and forwarded it into the scrapbook, but I'm most likely not going to say much more about it.
I sent Bernadette a condolence email, and I will be contributing to the donations in Michael's honor. Considering I am not close friends with the woman, I feel that is all I (as a fan) should do.
<3CMH<3
|  GYPSY1527
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Registered:
2/20/2004
From:
New Jersey
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| posted: 10/4/2005 at 10:35:19 AM ET
I have to agree with Christine. At first I was supportive of the scrapbook idea but as of now, I don't feel comfortable contributing anything. I made a donation and I think I'm going to stick with that.
"I chose and my world was shaken. So what? The choice may have been mistaken; the choosing was not. You have to move on."
"Sometimes people leave you, halfway through the wood. Others may deceive you You decide what's good. You decide alone, But no one is alone."
|  MsPetersFan1
Registered User
Registered:
6/25/2002
From:
Long Island, New York & Boston, | posted: 10/4/2005 at 11:16:43 AM ET
After reading the different views on the scrapbook, I am very torn as to what to do.
It is true that the scrapbook is a way for us, her fans, to cope with the loss of Michael and the pain she is going through now.
However, I also see the scrapbook being a good thing for her. At funerals and memorial services, the focus is centered not on the death of the person, but on the life of the person. Bernadette will be receiving hundreds of cards that extend condolences and that say "I am so sorry for your loss." But I think, that in order to fully mourn the loss of a loved one, you must find meaning in your suffering. You must find comfort in the memories and experiences you shared with the person. And while I agree with anonymous, that certain memories should remain in the family, I also don't think it would hurt for Bernadette to see that Michael left an impression on other people as well. I read over all of the posts on the official site, and there were quite a few of Michael's former co-workers who shared their memories of him. I think it is the simple things like that, like the fact that he did karate on the balcony, that will make Bernadette able to find some sort of solace. She may not choose to look at the scrapbook right away, which may be a good idea, but I think that in the coming months when she is ready she will read our letters and find comfort in the fact that he did have an affect on the world around him.
Forgive me if this sounds at all harsh because it is not meant to...Bernadette will be deeply saddened by the loss of her husband for a very long time. The mourning period is different for each person. But don't you think Bernadette will at some point need to come to terms with his death and look back on what a great life they shared and what a great person he was in order to fully heal? To quote Freud (an excuse me, I know its not correctly quoted)but the "successful mourning often leaves the bereaved person with some benign image of the lost person. This may take the form of comforting memories or fantasies...the person can call upon those enduring images of the lost when it suits them..." Bernadette is most likely not ready to take this step yet, but in time I think that she will find solace and meaning to her suffering by remembering the life Michael lead.
I am not in the position to judge how Bernadette is feeling now or how she will feel tomorrow, but I think that she will appreciate the fact that others are sharing their memories of Michael. I think that it will help in the long process of healing.
Please continue to be opinionated about this...I am conflicted as to what to do.
~* Megan *~
| eitak
Registered User
Registered:
5/12/2004
From:
Maryland | posted: 10/4/2005 at 12:01:41 PM ET
I think these are all really valid points...so I'll just throw my 2 cents into the mix.
I plan on sending a condolence email, but I don't think I will do anything with the scrap book. There's nothing "bad" about the scrap book, and I think it's a sweet idea, but I personally feel more comfortable with sending an email and donating in Michael's honor.
Katie
|  Rose
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Registered:
9/28/2003
From:
NY
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| posted: 10/4/2005 at 12:37:06 PM ET
You know I've really trying not post on this topic because I have very very mixed feelings about it. I think in time it may be a comfort to Bernadette to know that other people remember Michael in such kind ways. I also feel that if the memories are too personal it will be an invasion of privacy. I wrote her a condolense card and mentioned the look on his face when she was on Inside The Actors Studio and sent a donation in his name but I don't think I will contribute to the scrapbook. The more I write about the scrapbooki the more I feel that I should stop because this really isn't my place.
"Oh no, you won't. No, not a chance. No arguements, shut up and dance." -You'll Never Get Away From Me
"And if it wasn't for me then where would you be Miss Gypsy Rose Lee?" -Rose's Turn
|  bernadettefosse
Registered User
Registered:
10/3/2005
From:
Los Angeles | posted: 10/4/2005 at 3:54:33 PM ET
I two have mixed feelings on this subject. I agreed to be a part of it, but as I was writting my memories last night, I didn't print it out. Because it didn't make sense to me. I two think it's a sweet idea, but in all honestly maybe we should wait. Or do it, and those who will look at it first can decide wether she sees it or not.
Blah, I don't know.
"I'm just a Broadway Baby working off my tired feet, pounding 42nd street, to be in a show.."
| MsPetersFan1
Registered User
Registered:
6/25/2002
From:
Long Island, New York & Boston, | posted: 10/4/2005 at 4:06:43 PM ET
I've decided that I will still take anything that was mailed to me, read it over, and then decide if it is appropriate to send to Bernadette. I think by now most people will not be contributing, so its probably best to not make the scrapbook. If you'd like your material back or would like it sent to Judy anyway, PM me.
~* Megan *~
|  UCFGuardgirl
Registered User
Registered:
6/15/2003
From:
New York City | posted: 10/12/2005 at 1:36:49 PM ET
This is what I think. And take from it what you will. (And I apologize if it's a dead issue... I haven't been here in MONTHS....)
Anyway.
I think your hearts are in the right place with this idea. And Megan, I know you have only the very best of intentions. It's sweet to want to ease the grief somehow.
Ultimately, however, I think your good intentions are misplaced. And here is why:
For those people who actually KNEW Michael, I would say that this idea is very appropriate. If Bernadette's friends and family decided they wanted to make a scrapbook to remind Bernadette of the great person that Michael was, then it would be very appropriate, because it would be full of fond memories and great stories, and familiar names and faces.
However, the problem in this case is that Michael was not really "known" to any of us. He was a private citizen, just like you or I. He was NOT a celebrity in any way, shape, or form, so unless any of you actually had a bit of interaction with him at a stage door, or saw him errantly on TV, you don't really even "know" him beyond knowing his name, and that he was married to Bernadette Peters. And even if you talked to him briefly at the stage door, that's not a substantial memory, either. And in that case, it just becomes (in my opinion) a weird thing, because grief is normally very private, especially when you're dealing with a man who was, in essence, a private part of Bernadette's life and not involved in any way with the entertainment industry or her career. Of course, Bernadette's mourning will inevitably become public, because she is a public figure, but Michael was not a celebrity.
If we were talking about someone else's husband, like Kate Winslet's husband Sam Mendes (just as an example,) then I would probably have a differing opinion, because Sam Mendes is in the public spotlight, and a memory scrapbook from fans of his or Kate's would probably be expected, or at the very least, not at all surprising. Further, y'all would have something to draw from, because Sam Mendes has a body of work people admire, and has done lots of interviews and made appearances.
But in this case, it's more an issue of what anyone here could possibly contribute to something as substantial and personal as a scrapbook. Who here has an actual memory of Michael? Who here knew him in any substantive way so as to contribute something of meaning? Most of us would have zero to say. And a scrapbook chocked full of "I loved the way he looked at you on INSIDE THE ACTORS STUDIO" is not, to me, substantive enough to fashion a scrapbook around it.
In this case, I think you guys should stick to sympathy cards, which are sweet and caring and supportive, but general, and something anyone can easily do without seeming intrusive or misguided. Also, the charity thing is a WONDERFUL idea. Like I said, I think your hearts are absolutely in the right place. I just think you guys would be perhaps fufilling your own needs by doing this rather than fufilling Bernadette's.
***************
Me: Don't you like, die, when you hit 30?
KC: I should smack you.
| jmslsu01
Registered User
Registered:
6/9/2003
From:
northern VA | posted: 10/12/2005 at 2:09:31 PM ET
I am confused, since I must have completely misunderstood everything (that wouldn't be the first time). I thought there were people who knew him/them, and that's why they were contributing.
Jenn
| Christine-NYC
Registered User
Registered:
3/23/2002
From:
New York City
Fav. BP Song: With So Little to be Sure Of
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Fav. BP Character: Marie (insert last name) lol There's a few
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| posted: 10/12/2005 at 2:18:44 PM ET
I think she meant that while some of us HAVE met him, even had a conversation or two (beyond a stage door), none of us really know him...as in none of us were friends with him; and because he was not a public figure, it's not like we're fans of his where a scrapbook would be a feasible thing.
<3CMH<3
| UCFGuardgirl
Registered User
Registered:
6/15/2003
From:
New York City | posted: 10/12/2005 at 2:30:53 PM ET
quote:
I think she meant that while some of us HAVE met him, even had a conversation or two (beyond a stage door), none of us really know him...as in none of us were friends with him; and because he was not a public figure, it's not like we're fans of his where a scrapbook would be a feasible thing.
Yes, what she said, exactly.
Like I said, we're not talking about a public figure. We're talking about a private person who happened to be married to a public figure.
And as this is a fan message board, I am assuming the VAST majority of posters here have never seen Michael Whittenberg outside a "passing-by" at one of his wife's public appearances. And speaking with him for a few minutes here and there outside of a Bernadette concert, CD signing, or what-have-you, does NOT constitute knowing him.
for a public persona, a scrapbook (i think) is very sweet and totally appropriate. Especially in memoriam. For a private person, however, unless you knew them, how can you possibly contribute anything? It just seems vain and self-referential, and doesn't really have meaning.
Again, not trying to offend anyone. That's just my opinion.
***************
Me: Don't you like, die, when you hit 30?
KC: I should smack you.
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