Topic Bernadette vs. Ethel from the General Chit-Chat forum.
Post a reply or begin a new topic.
View other threads or jump to a different forum.
| Author | Topic: Bernadette vs. Ethel |
|---|
 SunnyK
Registered User
Registered:
2/11/2004
From:
Bethel Township, PA | posted: 5/31/2004 at 1:25:20 PM ET
I was just wondering if anyone can enlighten me on the difference in the way Bernadette portrayed Rose vs. Ethel Merman. Also, were there any differences in the script, songs added, etc? Thanks!
| gypsyricelee
Registered User
Registered:
5/30/2004
From:
PA | posted: 5/31/2004 at 6:48:11 PM ET
There were a few songs cut from the Ethel version. I know Herbie had a solo, but apparently he wasn't the best singer, so they cut the song. There was a song called "Mama's Talking Soft" or something that the kids were supposed to sing, but there was an injury or something with a set piece and they decided not to use it. I forge the third song.
I believe Together Wherever We Go did not have the extra verse until Angela Lansberry played the part. I don't think the Gypsy strip montage was added until this production, either.
Correct me if I'm wrong, of course!
As to Bernadette's performance compared to Ethel's? I'm trying to come up with an answer, so I'm looking at the souvenier book, which has very nice comments.
Someone explains how the original version's main theme was how parents try to live their children's lives, but the 2003 revival was now about being noticed. So, I guess that would be the overall difference in their performances.
You have a mission; a mission to see. Now I have one too, George.
| Karen
Registered User
Registered:
5/3/2002 | posted: 6/1/2004 at 6:19:27 PM ET
For what it's worth, here's an excerpt from what Arthur Laurents wrote about Merman in his memoir "Original Story By."
"She did her best and was hailed for being her best but Ethel Merman was a voice, a presence, and a strut, not an actress."A talking dog," was Steve Sondheim's description of her "Rose's Turn," which was performed to counts.
Acting hadn't made Ethel Merman Ethel Merman but she had personal qualities that made her right for Rose: not very bright but shrewd, common but charismatic, able to defeat you before you could get a swipe at her and, pure Rose, a walking, exuberant advertisement for Self-ignorance is bliss. To help the acting, I wrote stage directions for her speeches: "slower," "softer," "louder," "faster," "starting flat, then building." An actress would have broken pencils furiously crossing them out; Ethel quoted them if any of her line readings were questioned.
Two lines, however, no actress could have delivered more chillingly than she did. One was her command to her daughter: "You are going to be a star!" When Ethel Merman said that, you knew how she became a star; her determination was naked,frightening and gallant.
The other line was motherly advice Rose gives Louise about to face her first audience of men: "Make 'em beg for more and then don't give it to them!" Merman lashed into that and followed with a gleeful laugh that was scarily revealing."
I'm sure a lengthy paper could be written comparing the two performances, and probably a whole book, if you included all the actresses in major productions. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if someone isn't working on one now.
|  Chip1012
Registered User
Registered:
7/13/2003
From:
Boston | posted: 6/1/2004 at 7:07:58 PM ET
Thanks Karen. In Laurent's book are there more details of the original production and Merman's performance?
"The child is so sweet and the girls are so rapturous. Isn't it lovely how artist's can capture us?~" Sunday in the Park with George
| Karen
Registered User
Registered:
5/3/2002 | posted: 6/1/2004 at 7:48:56 PM ET
Yeah, he has at least thirty pages on Gypsy and Merman. It's an interesting book, definitely worth reading, in my opinion. Of course, it's always impossible to tell what's reliable and what's self-serving in these personal memoirs.
| SunnyK
Registered User
Registered:
2/11/2004
From:
Bethel Township, PA | posted: 6/1/2004 at 10:29:07 PM ET
Thanks for all your info Gypsyrice and Karen. My Dad was asking me and now I can give him some answers!
|  Rose
Registered User
Registered:
9/28/2003
From:
NY
Fav. BP Song: No One Is Alone and Some People
Fav. BP Show: Gypsy
Fav. BP Character: Rose/The Witch
Fav. BP CD: Gypsy
| posted: 6/1/2004 at 11:43:02 PM ET
Mama's Talkin' Soft was supposed to be sung be June and Lousie on top of a building when Rose and Herbie were meeting. It was going to be right before Small World. But the actress playing Louise was afraid of heights and when they put her up there she started crying so it was either fire her or cut the song and they decided to cut the song. Smile Baby was supposed to be at the beginning of the second act Rose was going to coach the Toreadorables about how to smile after they messed up their act. I'm not sure why that one was cut.
"Oh no, you won't. No, not a chance. No arguements, shut up and dance."
| jmslsu01
Registered User
Registered:
6/9/2003
From:
northern VA | posted: 6/1/2004 at 11:43:35 PM ET
SunnyK-
Find a copy of Coming Up Roses-The Broadway Musical in the 1950s by Ethan Mordden. It was published in 2000,so of course there is no comparison made between Ethel Merman and Bernadette. Coming Up Roses is the third in a five-voume series about the "Golden Age" of Broadway (1920s,1940s,1950s-1970s. The 1930s do not have a volume.). Gypsy (and West Side Story) are discussed at length in the last chapter. Mordden also discusses the Angela Lansbury revival in One More Kiss:The Broadway Musical in the 1970s. Mordden is very opinionated,to say the least,and caustic in some places,but he is an extraordinary writer. The entire series is remarkable. He has a new volume coming out this year: The Happiest Corpse I've Ever Seen:The Last Twenty-Five Years of the Broadway Musical (which gives some indication of the tone,but not surprising. It should be well-worth it,at the least.) I do not know if he discusses this recent Gypsy revival,but since it is due out in October,I'm not counting on it. I think it's more concerned with the West End megamusicals,The Producers and other new-ish musicals,and less concerned with revivals. I could be wrong,as I haven't seen the book yet. But of course covering the later Sondheim musicals (I'm certain),so this should interest all here.
Ethel Merman's memoirs are probably out of print,so check your library. It's not the most elegant and profound autobiography-it's one of those "as told to" memoirs. It's still entertaining (there are two editions-an updated edition was published near the end of the 70s). Of course,an unobjective resource.  But quite sad when she discusses her daughter.
Steven Suskin's Opening Night on Broadway series is a collection of reviews (and Suskin's annotations as well)-Gypsy is in the first volume (the second volume is More Opening Nights on Broadway and covers 1965-1981. I hope he comes out with a new one,but he just finished a volume of Broadway art,which should be fantastic. His Broadway Yearbook series,unfortunately,is no more.)
If I think of any more,I'll post here.
BTW-"Mama's Talkin' Soft" is available on the Lost in Boston III recording (the Lost in Boston series is a collection of songs cut from shows.).
Rose was originally going to have a strip as well,but that was cut (I think Ethan Mordden mentions that in the series.). I'm not sure where in the show it was placed,but Mordden leads me to think somewhere near (or in) Rose's Turn (near the end of the show at the least,logistically speaking.). That's a question for Ken Mandelbaum's Q&A (off to email him now. I'd like to know,if possible!). However,it doesn't seem like it went very far beyond some stripping lessons for Ethel Merman,and after that was a no-go,the idea was dropped.
Jenn
| SunnyK
Registered User
Registered:
2/11/2004
From:
Bethel Township, PA | posted: 6/2/2004 at 5:37:36 PM ET
Jmslsu,
Wow! I am impresses with all of your knowledge. I can't imagine Ethel Merman stripping!
|  moljul
Registered User
Registered:
4/2/2001
From:
New York
Fav. BP CD: I'll Be Your Baby Tonight
Fav. BP Song: Dublin Lady
| posted: 6/2/2004 at 6:39:00 PM ET
She actually took her lessons from Gypsy herself!
| Karen
Registered User
Registered:
5/3/2002 | posted: 6/2/2004 at 7:21:16 PM ET
Jenn, I'm so glad you recommended the Ethan Mordden books; I find them almost required reading for anyone interested in Broadway. For those not familiar with him, he has other very good books on theatre outside that series, and has also written well on film, opera, and other subjects. I believe there is a planned volume on thirties musicals, still to come out, tentatively entitled "Sing For Your Supper."
| Rose
Registered User
Registered:
9/28/2003
From:
NY
Fav. BP Song: No One Is Alone and Some People
Fav. BP Show: Gypsy
Fav. BP Character: Rose/The Witch
Fav. BP CD: Gypsy
| posted: 6/3/2004 at 12:49:57 AM ET
You should get the book The Making of Gypsy it gives insight to how the play and music was written and the problems and successes of the Ethel Merman and Angela Lansbury productions. I just finished it and it's great.
"Oh no, you won't. No, not a chance. No arguements, shut up and dance."
| marc
Registered User
Registered:
6/9/2003 | posted: 6/4/2004 at 9:05:38 AM ET
I just read the customers' reviews of THE MAKING OF GYPSY on Amazon.com and the book does not sound very well researched.
Any opinions from readers on this message board?
| jmslsu01
Registered User
Registered:
6/9/2003
From:
northern VA | posted: 6/4/2004 at 10:51:07 AM ET
Keith Garebian's Making of (insert musical here-he has several)series runs from decent to a waste of time,IMO. You don't miss much by skipping this series (glad I bought used copies). There are better accounts of all those musicals-several from those involved with the shows-than this series. I'm sorry to hear about those errors-it's not like a writer is lacking in information resources about this musical. I just finished contributing to a reference book (out in December,we're hoping!),and I rechecked things many times before I was satisfied my information was correct. Peter Riddle's book about the musical theater also has blatant errors. I skimmed the Gypsy volume-didn't buy it ( I borrowed a copy) because it didn't strike me as being particularly interesting. Now I want to reread it to see if I can find the errors. But not anytime soon.
Karen-I've been waiting for that 30s volume. Thank you!There's interesting stuff to be had in 1930s Broadway-political shows,especially. I like the title of the 30s book. I'm wondering about the title for the twenty-five years book (yes,I know it's from Cabaret). He usually references songs from the book's particular era. If that's the tone of the book,why not Why God Why: The Last Twenty-Five Years of the Broadway Musical?
Jenn
| | Other threads: « Next | Previous » |
Do you think this topic is inappropriate? Vote it down. After a thread receives a certain amount of negative votes it will be automatically locked.
Please contact us with any concerns you might have.
|
